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Post by saylemvfm on Jul 11, 2021 22:12:58 GMT
"Madam, I should note that we ask for a possible different limit due to the unique design, as the proposed limit would not sit well with many of the people from my home country, as the twin-hull design is a Grand Maren staple, originating in the Duchy of Alycia, where I, Lord Sebastian, hail. In a way, it's a matter of pride to our people, and we would not be keen on signing a treaty that would either shrink our ships or cause them to wildly change shape. Alternatively, I would suggest that instead of a hard tonnage limit, there would either be a softer limit, or a limit which varies depending on hull count. If this is unacceptable, I believe my people would be more accepting of a gun limit rather than a tonnage limit." Lord Sebastian said after standing up, directing his words to the woman in the black and red uniform. Lady Iris did not stop him, as she had similar thoughts running through her head.
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Post by The Realm of Moderal on Jul 12, 2021 4:48:44 GMT
"I am opposed to raising the tonnage limit for a single nation. I would not be opposed to raising the total tonnage limit. I am also opposed to increasing the tonnage for a single type of ship. This would unfairly advantage those who already use the ship and force all others to adapt. We would also not be opposed to a limit on guns." Rodica responds to the man.
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Post by saylemvfm on Jul 12, 2021 16:44:08 GMT
Lady Iris pondered for a moment, and then cued Lord Sebastian to sit down before she spoke.
"I do believe a gun limit would be a better option for a limitation, instead of a tonnage limit. If a tonnage limit were in place, we'd sit here debating all day on whether or not to give special limits for ships like the ones Grand Maren has, and honestly I would consider that a waste of time. I would rather have that aforementioned gun limit. Currently, the High Mountain, the largest of the ships we brought here, has 12 guns meant for ship-to-ship combat. I suggest that the total gun limit per ship at this moment be 12 guns, or, at most 14, if that is more allowing for some of your ships. Is this an acceptable change to the treaty?" Lady Iris asked once she had finished.
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Post by The Realm of Moderal on Jul 13, 2021 3:27:40 GMT
Rodica opens her mouth, about to say something. However three of the men behind her look quite incredulous and one taps he on the shoulder before she can say anything. They have a hushed conversation before Rodica turns back around and begins speaking.
"My compatriots have informed me that the smallest of our battleships have a lot more guns than just twelve. So we would not agree to limiting the number of guns to twelve. We suggest and upward limit of six main guns, around eighteen secondary weapons, and an unlimited number of smaller weapons such as machine guns."
She turns to her companions, presumably to check if she got the number right.
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Post by Emperor Florin von Marcum on Jul 13, 2021 5:25:56 GMT
Councilor Coltain pried his weary eyes away from the offensive centerpieces of the table, listening to the ongoing debate. Leaning back slightly, he waited for a lull in the conversation before he interjected.
“Ladies and gentlemen, I think amidst this discussion we are forgetting a pertinent piece of information. A proposed tonnage limit on capital ships will only negatively impact those of us who intend to have heavily armed and armored vessels as mainstays of our fleet. Yet, such limits would hardly impact our esteemed hosts. Having seen the vessels of Sadalen, it would seem her navy is much less focused on the doctrine of heavy capital ships that many of us would deem necessary. I would never presume to think that the government of Sadalen is attempting to usurp the naval authority of her fellow nations. And yet…” he trailed off, turning his eyes once again downward toward the table.
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Post by The Realm of Moderal on Jul 13, 2021 5:36:15 GMT
Councilor Coltain pried his weary eyes away from the offensive centerpieces of the table, listening to the ongoing debate. Leaning back slightly, he waited for a lull in the conversation before he interjected. “Ladies and gentlemen, I think amidst this discussion we are forgetting a pertinent piece of information. A proposed tonnage limit on capital ships will only negatively impact those of us who intend to have heavily armed and armored vessels as mainstays of our fleet. Yet, such limits would hardly impact our esteemed hosts. Having seen the vessels of Sadalen, it would seem her navy is much less focused on the doctrine of heavy capital ships that many of us would deem necessary. I would never presume to think that the government of Sadalen is attempting to usurp the naval authority of her fellow nations. And yet…” he trailed off, turning his eyes once again downward toward the table. Rodica turns to him, "so you think we should have a different system. Rather than limiting tonnage, limiting firepower or some other measure? |
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Post by saylemvfm on Jul 13, 2021 7:02:03 GMT
As Lord Sebastian had informed Lady Iris she had used the wrong term, Councilor Coltain spoke in the absence of voice. His words did work their way into Lady Iris' mind, as now she was thinking less of battleship restrictions and more of who was attempting to install them. As Madam Rodica responded, Lady Iris sat back down and talked amongst her companions, and together the trio had debated if Lady Iris should say what's on her mind, but she was concerned about offending her hosts, or worse, making enemies. Lord Walter was for saying it, and Lord Sebastian was of neutral feeling, so Lady Iris decided to stand back up and speak her mind. Clearing her throat, she began
"Councilor Coltain, are you implying that the nation of Sadalen is attempting to weaken us by forcing us to change our naval doctrines and strategies, and then move in with experience and destroy us while we are inexperienced with our new limits? I wouldn't be surprised if they cared little for outsiders, as these flowers seem to have been chosen for looks alone, and not to how the members attending this treaty would've responded. For those that don't know, orange is representative of famine in Grand Maren culture, so this is almost insulting to have to look at." Lady Iris said cautiously at first, moving into a very slight aggressive tone once she started to talk about the flowers. Her heart was beating though, but she felt as if though she had to say it, even if it put her and possibly her nation in bad standing with Sadalen.
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Post by Fleischmann on Jul 13, 2021 14:34:49 GMT
Councilor Coltain pried his weary eyes away from the offensive centerpieces of the table, listening to the ongoing debate. Leaning back slightly, he waited for a lull in the conversation before he interjected. “Ladies and gentlemen, I think amidst this discussion we are forgetting a pertinent piece of information. A proposed tonnage limit on capital ships will only negatively impact those of us who intend to have heavily armed and armored vessels as mainstays of our fleet. Yet, such limits would hardly impact our esteemed hosts. Having seen the vessels of Sadalen, it would seem her navy is much less focused on the doctrine of heavy capital ships that many of us would deem necessary. I would never presume to think that the government of Sadalen is attempting to usurp the naval authority of her fellow nations. And yet…” he trailed off, turning his eyes once again downward toward the table. Hearing this proclamation with no small amount of confusion as to the state of the foreign nation's naval intelligence, the representatives of the Raikh considered whether or not they ought to correct the foreign dignitaries as to the true number of battleships currently fielded by the Flutt. After thinking about it and realising that the ships were already in clear view of the foreign ships, it did not seem to make sense to allow the misconception to stand. 'With all due respect, Councillor, our fleet counts five ships of its number as battleships. A fifth of our fleet would be affected by these limitations.' As Lord Sebastian had informed Lady Iris she had used the wrong term, Councilor Coltain spoke in the absence of voice. His words did work their way into Lady Iris' mind, as now she was thinking less of battleship restrictions and more of who was attempting to install them. As Madam Rodica responded, Lady Iris sat back down and talked amongst her companions, and together the trio had debated if Lady Iris should say what's on her mind, but she was concerned about offending her hosts, or worse, making enemies. Lord Walter was for saying it, and Lord Sebastian was of neutral feeling, so Lady Iris decided to stand back up and speak her mind. Clearing her throat, she began "Councilor Coltain, are you implying that the nation of Sadalen is attempting to weaken us by forcing us to change our naval doctrines and strategies, and then move in with experience and destroy us while we are inexperienced with our new limits? I wouldn't be surprised if they cared little for outsiders, as these flowers seem to have been chosen for looks alone, and not to how the members attending this treaty would've responded. For those that don't know, orange is representative of famine in Grand Maren culture, so this is almost insulting to have to look at." Lady Iris said cautiously at first, moving into a very slight aggressive tone once she started to talk about the flowers. Her heart was beating though, but she felt as if though she had to say it, even if it put her and possibly her nation in bad standing with Sadalen. As for the other party... Well, the representatives were less than certain what to make of them. Even if they had such a connotation, it felt almost unfair to hold that against the host nation when there were representatives from several disparate national governments here now. At least someone was going to be a tad put off one way or another. That said, it would not do to be impolite, so assurances and an apology were given. 'We assure you, that the honourable Councillor is mistaken. As you might have seen when coming into the port, our fleet is by no means lacking in battleships and we are not out to weaken anyone. As things stand, I do not believe any ships or fleets in existence violate the proposed terms of the treaty. As for the colour of the flowers, we apologise for that, as we were not aware. That said, I must take issue with the idea of changing the restrictions to one simply based off of the number of guns. We are here to avoid the start of an arms race, but that action seems almost designed to facilitate one. By not restricting tonnage, larger and more powerful ships might be built in ever increasing numbers, with the only think restricting them is how many guns they have on their centre-line. Your restriction would at most bring back the days of broadsides and gun-decks, which we are only just out of.' |
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Post by saylemvfm on Jul 13, 2021 19:48:42 GMT
Lady Iris' mind was running rampant, and she had to stabilize her mind before speaking again.
"Fluttfads Horn, I accept your apology. As I have taken a moment to think, I reminded myself that the High Mountain is only roughly 18,000 tons, which is still a fair bit below half the proposed limit, and she is our biggest ship. However, my earlier concern is still valid in my mind, as when ships do eventually reach that limit, our ships would look like chodes compared to the ships the rest of the world offers, but I guess that is an issue for a later time. As for your concern for broadsides and gun decks, may I ask if you would be opposed to limiting the size of the secondary guns as well, in case we are in favor of adopting a gun number restriction instead of a tonnage restriction?" Lady Iris said to the Fluttfads before turning her attention to Madam Rodica.
"I should note that I have used the wrong term, and meant to say that the High Mountain has 12 main guns, as well as 16 secondary guns. However, one of the second largest ships we brought today, the Alycian Spruce, has 8 main guns and 12 secondary guns. Would you be inclined to raise the proposed number, if we do decide on gun limitation instead of tonnage limitation, to 8-10 main guns per ship and 18 secondary guns?" Lady Iris finished, awaiting response from the two.
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Post by Fleischmann on Jul 16, 2021 1:47:16 GMT
Lady Iris' mind was running rampant, and she had to stabilize her mind before speaking again. "Fluttfads Horn, I accept your apology. As I have taken a moment to think, I reminded myself that the High Mountain is only roughly 18,000 tons, which is still a fair bit below half the proposed limit, and she is our biggest ship. However, my earlier concern is still valid in my mind, as when ships do eventually reach that limit, our ships would look like chodes compared to the ships the rest of the world offers, but I guess that is an issue for a later time. As for your concern for broadsides and gun decks, may I ask if you would be opposed to limiting the size of the secondary guns as well, in case we are in favor of adopting a gun number restriction instead of a tonnage restriction?" Lady Iris said to the Fluttfads before turning her attention to Madam Rodica. "I should note that I have used the wrong term, and meant to say that the High Mountain has 12 main guns, as well as 16 secondary guns. However, one of the second largest ships we brought today, the Alycian Spruce, has 8 main guns and 12 secondary guns. Would you be inclined to raise the proposed number, if we do decide on gun limitation instead of tonnage limitation, to 8-10 main guns per ship and 18 secondary guns?" Lady Iris finished, awaiting response from the two. Considering the idea of limiting them, the thought crossed his mind that this might directly impact current proposals for destroyers that had been floated. Whilst they at last theoretically retained torpedoes due to demands by the Fluttbaurd, some naval designers and theoreticians had gone a bit over the top and founded what they called the Niujis Skul (New School), saying that the days of slow and heavily armoured warships and gun duels were coming to a close and that a stronger emphasis needed to be placed on small and fast warships, using a mixture of cannons and torpedoes. In this case, the proposed designs for gun-destroyers were mostly focused on the question of how to safely and effectively engage torpedo boats and protect larger and slower ships from them Realising that he had not given an answer and instead got into thinking a bit too heavily about his misgivings about the limitations, but also how much he disliked the idea that battleships were becoming obsolete after only a four decades, Horn was ready to answer. 'We might be willing to accept the gun restrictions if they required that all secondary guns be of at least one inch smaller than the primary guns in diameter and that ships be required to maintain a ratio of 1:2:5 for primary, secondary, and tertiary guns respectively, with casement guns being counted as secondary guns.' Taking a moment to quickly gauge reaction, he continued. 'That said, we still fail to see how this might deter the building of increasingly more ships with large guns.' |
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Post by The Realm of Moderal on Jul 16, 2021 5:39:28 GMT
Lady Iris' mind was running rampant, and she had to stabilize her mind before speaking again. "Fluttfads Horn, I accept your apology. As I have taken a moment to think, I reminded myself that the High Mountain is only roughly 18,000 tons, which is still a fair bit below half the proposed limit, and she is our biggest ship. However, my earlier concern is still valid in my mind, as when ships do eventually reach that limit, our ships would look like chodes compared to the ships the rest of the world offers, but I guess that is an issue for a later time. As for your concern for broadsides and gun decks, may I ask if you would be opposed to limiting the size of the secondary guns as well, in case we are in favor of adopting a gun number restriction instead of a tonnage restriction?" Lady Iris said to the Fluttfads before turning her attention to Madam Rodica. "I should note that I have used the wrong term, and meant to say that the High Mountain has 12 main guns, as well as 16 secondary guns. However, one of the second largest ships we brought today, the Alycian Spruce, has 8 main guns and 12 secondary guns. Would you be inclined to raise the proposed number, if we do decide on gun limitation instead of tonnage limitation, to 8-10 main guns per ship and 18 secondary guns?" Lady Iris finished, awaiting response from the two. Considering the idea of limiting them, the thought crossed his mind that this might directly impact current proposals for destroyers that had been floated. Whilst they at last theoretically retained torpedoes due to demands by the Fluttbaurd, some naval designers and theoreticians had gone a bit over the top and founded what they called the Niujis Skul (New School), saying that the days of slow and heavily armoured warships and gun duels were coming to a close and that a stronger emphasis needed to be placed on small and fast warships, using a mixture of cannons and torpedoes. In this case, the proposed designs for gun-destroyers were mostly focused on the question of how to safely and effectively engage torpedo boats and protect larger and slower ships from them Realising that he had not given an answer and instead got into thinking a bit too heavily about his misgivings about the limitations, but also how much he disliked the idea that battleships were becoming obsolete after only a four decades, Horn was ready to answer. 'We might be willing to accept the gun restrictions if they required that all secondary guns be of at least one calibre size smaller than the primary guns and that ships be required to maintain a ratio of 1:2:5 for primary, secondary, and tertiary guns respectively, with casement guns being counted as secondary guns.' Taking a moment to quickly gauge reaction, he continued. 'That said, we still fail to see how this might deter the building of increasingly more ships with large guns.' Rodica turns from confering with her compatriots, stands up, and says. "Seperatly both measures are inadequate, we need both for them to be effective." |
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Post by saylemvfm on Jul 16, 2021 7:07:31 GMT
"My thoughts exactly, Madam Rodica. After a little bit of thinking, I'd like to summarize all points for the treaty right now, as well as some additional notes. First off, the tonnage limits. There would be 45,000 tons max per ship, 160,000 per all ironclad ships of the line, and 250,000 per the entire fleet. Second off, the gun limits. I would like to raise the earlier proposition to 14 main guns per ship, 55 per all ironclad ships of the line, and 90 per the entire fleet. Additionally, there is also the max of 16" per main guns, and the proposed max of no more than 1 inch smaller than the main gun. There is also the ratio limits of 1:2:5, with casement guns being counted as secondary guns. I would also like to propose two clauses to the treaty, a grandfather clause and a sunset clause. I suggest that in 25 years time, the sunset clause expires or, with everyone's agreement, to meet for a second conference to determine new gun limits. Is there any point I have touched on that would like to be clarified or changed?" Lady Iris asked after a moment.
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Post by Emperor Florin von Marcum on Jul 17, 2021 23:01:40 GMT
Coltain finally looked up from the schematics of the Sadalen vessel he had been studying, noting that a cruiser had been accidentally labeled as a capital ship by his aide. He’d be dealt with later.
“Forgive the earlier statement. There was miscommunication among my staff. In terms of the proposed limits on main armaments, how would one classify torpedo tubes? Our Torpedo destroyers, for example, are equipped with quite a few torpedo tubes, but only one 12” main gun. They may be the largest arms on our vessels, but aren’t, strictly speaking, her main arms.”
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Post by Fleischmann on Jul 18, 2021 8:11:38 GMT
Coltain finally looked up from the schematics of the Sadalen vessel he had been studying, noting that a cruiser had been accidentally labeled as a capital ship by his aide. He’d be dealt with later. “Forgive the earlier statement. There was miscommunication among my staff. In terms of the proposed limits on main armaments, how would one classify torpedo tubes? Our Torpedo destroyers, for example, are equipped with quite a few torpedo tubes, but only one 12” main gun. They may be the largest arms on our vessels, but aren’t, strictly speaking, her main arms.” 'To be honest, we were not planning on classifying them at all. They are hardly fit to be called weapons and they act more as a deadweight than anything else. The day a torpedo can out-run a ship in combat is the day that ships start sailing beneath the waves.' The response was not actually truthful, but it was better to give a false impression of confidence than one of dread. The Fluttbaurd had not yet decided on how to approach torpedoes of the mobile kind, being much more comfortable and familiar with the sessile sort. That said, as the development of torpedoes was rather new and might offer a certain level of advantage in future, it would not do to limit them now when they might prove an unexpected ace in future. |
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Post by Emperor Florin von Marcum on Jul 18, 2021 9:22:27 GMT
Coltain finally looked up from the schematics of the Sadalen vessel he had been studying, noting that a cruiser had been accidentally labeled as a capital ship by his aide. He’d be dealt with later. “Forgive the earlier statement. There was miscommunication among my staff. In terms of the proposed limits on main armaments, how would one classify torpedo tubes? Our Torpedo destroyers, for example, are equipped with quite a few torpedo tubes, but only one 12” main gun. They may be the largest arms on our vessels, but aren’t, strictly speaking, her main arms.” 'To be honest, we were not planning on classifying them at all. They are hardly fit to be called weapons and they act more as a deadweight than anything else. The day a torpedo can out-run a ship in combat is the day that ships start sailing beneath the waves.' The response was not actually truthful, but it was better to give a false impression of confidence than one of dread. The Fluttbaurd had not yet decided on how to approach torpedoes of the mobile kind, being much more comfortable and familiar with the sessile sort. That said, as the development of torpedoes was rather new and might offer a certain level of advantage in future, it would not do to limit them now when they might prove an unexpected ace in future. The Councilor felt his chest tighten at the the words of the man who’s eyes were now locked with his. Samuel tried to maintain a neutral expression, but the end result was a tight smile as he tried to contort his face into a more dignified manner. This was good for him. If torpedos went unaddressed, the Divinian navy would be much less hurt by this treaty than some at the table. And yet, he wouldn’t allow an insult on his cousins navy to go unanswered. “Very good then. I suppose torpedos wouldn’t be a problem for those who learn to flee from combat at any chance. And might I add you-“ He was cut off by the older gentleman to his left. Cardinal Bartone represented the Petrine Dominions, and had sat quietly until this point. Yet now, rising from his chair slowly, he spoke. “Thank you Councilor for your… notes on differing naval doctrines. The current proposal limiting armaments to a 1:2:5 ratio would likely be a detriment to many nations here. Primarily, nothing this side of heaven would stop a nation from simply loading their ship with more large guns to allow for more secondary arms. And to that end, we must take care. Warfare is cruel yes. But to limit the arms on a ship would likely only prolong battles, incurring more human suffering. It would also ensure that fledgling nations would be at the mercy of those with the means to sustain a larger fleet. Perhaps, if we feel so compelled to limit arms on military vessels, it should be done on the basis of individual calibre.” |
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Post by Fleischmann on Jul 18, 2021 10:16:07 GMT
'To be honest, we were not planning on classifying them at all. They are hardly fit to be called weapons and they act more as a deadweight than anything else. The day a torpedo can out-run a ship in combat is the day that ships start sailing beneath the waves.' The response was not actually truthful, but it was better to give a false impression of confidence than one of dread. The Fluttbaurd had not yet decided on how to approach torpedoes of the mobile kind, being much more comfortable and familiar with the sessile sort. That said, as the development of torpedoes was rather new and might offer a certain level of advantage in future, it would not do to limit them now when they might prove an unexpected ace in future. The Councilor felt his chest tighten at the the words of the man who’s eyes were now locked with his. Samuel tried to maintain a neutral expression, but the end result was a tight smile as he tried to contort his face into a more dignified manner. This was good for him. If torpedos went unaddressed, the Divinian navy would be much less hurt by this treaty than some at the table. And yet, he wouldn’t allow an insult on his cousins navy to go unanswered. “Very good then. I suppose torpedos wouldn’t be a problem for those who learn to flee from combat at any chance. And might I add you-“ He was cut off by the older gentleman to his left. Cardinal Bartone represented the Petrine Dominions, and had sat quietly until this point. Yet now, rising from his chair slowly, he spoke. “Thank you Councilor for your… notes on differing naval doctrines. The current proposal limiting armaments to a 1:2:5 ratio would likely be a detriment to many nations here. Primarily, nothing this side of heaven would stop a nation from simply loading their ship with more large guns to allow for more secondary arms. And to that end, we must take care. Warfare is cruel yes. But to limit the arms on a ship would likely only prolong battles, incurring more human suffering. It would also ensure that fledgling nations would be at the mercy of those with the means to sustain a larger fleet. Perhaps, if we feel so compelled to limit arms on military vessels, it should be done on the basis of individual calibre.” 'We are willing to negotiate with regards to the guns, but feel the need to point out that the larger nations are not going to be able to build ships without restraint, as tonnage limits are very much there to stop that. That said, we do see your point and would be willing to hear your thoughts on more suitable limitations.' Reclining a bit, Horn could not help but feel a tad tired. These foreigners were so much more contentious than he had anticipated. It was reassuring that they did not seem to have accurate naval intelligence or a proper grasp of naval doctrine, this likely meant that other nations were even further in the dark as to the state of things. 'Also, we would like to ask that all present give assent to at least the tonnage limits, so that we might consider them agreed to and focus on the armament limits solely.' |
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Post by Emperor Florin von Marcum on Jul 18, 2021 17:56:35 GMT
The Councilor felt his chest tighten at the the words of the man who’s eyes were now locked with his. Samuel tried to maintain a neutral expression, but the end result was a tight smile as he tried to contort his face into a more dignified manner. This was good for him. If torpedos went unaddressed, the Divinian navy would be much less hurt by this treaty than some at the table. And yet, he wouldn’t allow an insult on his cousins navy to go unanswered. “Very good then. I suppose torpedos wouldn’t be a problem for those who learn to flee from combat at any chance. And might I add you-“ He was cut off by the older gentleman to his left. Cardinal Bartone represented the Petrine Dominions, and had sat quietly until this point. Yet now, rising from his chair slowly, he spoke. “Thank you Councilor for your… notes on differing naval doctrines. The current proposal limiting armaments to a 1:2:5 ratio would likely be a detriment to many nations here. Primarily, nothing this side of heaven would stop a nation from simply loading their ship with more large guns to allow for more secondary arms. And to that end, we must take care. Warfare is cruel yes. But to limit the arms on a ship would likely only prolong battles, incurring more human suffering. It would also ensure that fledgling nations would be at the mercy of those with the means to sustain a larger fleet. Perhaps, if we feel so compelled to limit arms on military vessels, it should be done on the basis of individual calibre.” 'We are willing to negotiate with regards to the guns, but feel the need to point out that the larger nations are not going to be able to build ships without restraint, as tonnage limits are very much there to stop that. That said, we do see your point and would be willing to hear your thoughts on more suitable limitations.' Reclining a bit, Horn could not help but feel a tad tired. These foreigners were so much more contentious than he had anticipated. It was reassuring that they did not seem to have accurate naval intelligence or a proper grasp of naval doctrine, this likely meant that other nations were even further in the dark as to the state of things. 'Also, we would like to ask that all present give assent to at least the tonnage limits, so that we might consider them agreed to and focus on the armament limits solely.' “Yes very good you have your tonnage limit” Coltain jumped in again, practically knocking over the cardinal as he rose to speak. “Though I would like to add, it is so incredibly high as to make the concerns of his eminence a plausible threat. We’ve all seen larger and lighter guns being produced in our time. Surely we can all foresee the possibility of a future vessel having equipped more guns. Secondly, I believe you are operating under the false premise that every navy will be able to sustain a fleet of ships at the maximum tonnage. I’d have thought your experience in The Gankands would have taught you the folly of assuming warfare is always waged on equal footing. This treaty must also ensure that a hostile power cannot needlessly prey upon the weak. To that end, I find a limitation on guns based on the proposed 1:2:5 ratio wanting, if a limit there must be.” These men of Sadalen may have dismissed the Gankands Conflict, but the Divinians remembered it all too well. The Sadalenese, with their pirates and thugs, relied on speed then too. The Divinians however, bled for the Western islands. It was surely the superior firepower of Divinian ships that had won them the day there, not the ability to slip out of combat at the first sign of trouble. And he would sign no treaty which would hinder his navy's ability to operate at the expense of playing nice with Sadalen. |
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Post by The Realm of Moderal on Jul 19, 2021 4:35:38 GMT
The Councilor felt his chest tighten at the the words of the man who’s eyes were now locked with his. Samuel tried to maintain a neutral expression, but the end result was a tight smile as he tried to contort his face into a more dignified manner. This was good for him. If torpedos went unaddressed, the Divinian navy would be much less hurt by this treaty than some at the table. And yet, he wouldn’t allow an insult on his cousins navy to go unanswered. “Very good then. I suppose torpedos wouldn’t be a problem for those who learn to flee from combat at any chance. And might I add you-“ He was cut off by the older gentleman to his left. Cardinal Bartone represented the Petrine Dominions, and had sat quietly until this point. Yet now, rising from his chair slowly, he spoke. “Thank you Councilor for your… notes on differing naval doctrines. The current proposal limiting armaments to a 1:2:5 ratio would likely be a detriment to many nations here. Primarily, nothing this side of heaven would stop a nation from simply loading their ship with more large guns to allow for more secondary arms. And to that end, we must take care. Warfare is cruel yes. But to limit the arms on a ship would likely only prolong battles, incurring more human suffering. It would also ensure that fledgling nations would be at the mercy of those with the means to sustain a larger fleet. Perhaps, if we feel so compelled to limit arms on military vessels, it should be done on the basis of individual calibre.” 'We are willing to negotiate with regards to the guns, but feel the need to point out that the larger nations are not going to be able to build ships without restraint, as tonnage limits are very much there to stop that. That said, we do see your point and would be willing to hear your thoughts on more suitable limitations.' Reclining a bit, Horn could not help but feel a tad tired. These foreigners were so much more contentious than he had anticipated. It was reassuring that they did not seem to have accurate naval intelligence or a proper grasp of naval doctrine, this likely meant that other nations were even further in the dark as to the state of things. 'Also, we would like to ask that all present give assent to at least the tonnage limits, so that we might consider them agreed to and focus on the armament limits solely.' "The tonnage limit is acceptable." Rodica says simply from her seat. Waiting and watching the negotiations play out before speaking again. |
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Post by saylemvfm on Jul 19, 2021 9:46:00 GMT
Lady Iris had been sitting for a bit now, talking to her companions quietly. Observing Councilor Coltain's actions, she was taking notes in her head, and to her it seemed as if the man was holding holding a grudge against Sadalen. Iris wasn't one for outside history, but perhaps she would do some research. One thing she and Lords Walter and Sebastian started to wonder was what were to happen to people who broke the treaty. Standing back up, Lady Iris begun to speak.
"While Grand Maren may start to notice the downsides of the tonnage limit quicker, we'll accept it after all. Also, I must ask, what would happen if someone were to break the treaty, during peacetime or during war?" she asked.
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Post by The Realm of Moderal on Jul 20, 2021 4:49:38 GMT
Lady Iris had been sitting for a bit now, talking to her companions quietly. Observing Councilor Coltain's actions, she was taking notes in her head, and to her it seemed as if the man was holding holding a grudge against Sadalen. Iris wasn't one for outside history, but perhaps she would do some research. One thing she and Lords Walter and Sebastian started to wonder was what were to happen to people who broke the treaty. Standing back up, Lady Iris begun to speak. "While Grand Maren may start to notice the downsides of the tonnage limit quicker, we'll accept it after all. Also, I must ask, what would happen if someone were to break the treaty, during peacetime or during war?" she asked. "That is a hard question. How can you hold a nation accountable. There are many answers to the question, yet none of them seem good enough. In the end it is always possible for nations to circumvent the treaty, or simply withdraw. In the end only honour keeps one bound to a treaty. I would hope that if a nation was to decide to reneg on the treaty, they would withdraw. However, that does not always happen." " |
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